I can’t decide if this is more scary or awesome.

This is definitely a terrible roommate story, but I wish you could present the facts without being such a snob. “Lower-class?” “Ghetto?” Who cares if your roommate had a raspy voice from smoking Newports? There’s nothing in this story that suggests she was smoking them in the apartment, so why did you feel the need to add this detail? It seems like you added it because you feel it shows how “low-class” this woman was. The stuff about the drug dealers is bad enough; there’s no need to make this into a class war.
Also, I highly doubt these people saw you, a suburban, middle-class teenager, as a “mythical creature.” They probably thought it was amusing that you were making construction paper hats and trying to capture “lightness” in styrofoam, and that you seem to think there’s something intellectual about this.
It sounds like you were in a bad situation, so yeah, this is a Worst Roommate story. But seriously, get over yourself.

GarterSnake– This is my story.

Snob? Hardly. I readily own up to having been born to the LEAST glamorous class in America– the dreary suburban middle class. Poor kids aspire to be upper class, rich kids aspire to be lower class, NOBODY aspires to be middle class.

I alluded to the class issue because it’s pertinent, and it’s what makes the world go round. You seem to want to believe that there’s no such thing as social class in the United States. If classes do exist– and they most certainly do– why is it verboten to acknowledge the fact?

The good news is that in America people can climb up (or down!) from whichever rung on the social ladder to which they were born, and one’s social-class has absolutely nothing to do with income.

And believe me, I certainly didn’t mean to imply that my goofy art school assignments were intellectual exercises (!)– I was only trying to convey the kind of silly kindergarten-esque activities that I busied myself with, in contrast to those of my extremely savvy, worldly room-mates.

The whole point of my story IS the class-clash (say THAT three times, fast)— a naive, protected girl from the ‘burbs (an overgrown child, literally armed with crayons… further extending her childhood by attending art school) thrown into a genuinely rough & tumble urban living situation, through a completely random twist of fate.

You just came off as sounding like the dozens of suburban girls I’ve known in my lifetime, the ones who refer to every poor neighborhood as “ghetto.” I feel that you could tell this story–the stuff about the drug dealing, the weird strangers, and everything else–without resorting to that. And this story really isn’t about the class clash; it’s about a young person living with shady older people. When I was in college, I knew tons of drug dealers who came from wealthy families. That’s why the Newport smoking and the “lower class neighborhood” really aren’t pertinent, unless you’re trying to say something about social classes.
I guess I misread your statements about your art exercises; it sounded to me like you were contrasting your intellectual, artistic nature with your roommate’s “lower class” sensibility. It’s a touchy point for me.
Anyway, like I said, this does sound like a nightmare roommate situation. I just think the story could have stood on its own without the classism.

I think this story is absolutely awesome (for a reader, not to live through) & would love to see it played out on a TV show or expanded on in essay form.

I can just picture you now, Lisa, sitting at the table all innocent-like doing crafts whilst there are pounds of cocaine next to you. Brilliant.

GarterSnake – I’m a bit confused by your perception of the class issues in this tale – I suspect you’re inferring some of your own stuff onto this, because I really can’t see it.

Lisa – so funny (in hindsight!). In my head, you’re like the guy in Airplane who makes shouts quotes form The Wizard of Oz or makes jokes while everyone around him is being serious about the crisis – love it!

Oh, and if you’d like to enter into a real class debate, try being British – we’ve got about 1000 years of warfare on that one.

Laura, I second the class thing in England. I know EXACTLY what you mean.

GarterSnake–project much?? Sheesh.

I’m not projecting; I’m pointing out that there was no need for the classism in Lisa’s story, and that she came off sounding entitled. And Laura, I’m aware of Britain’s long history of social castes. What’s your point? Britain is more classist than the US, therefore classism in the US doesn’t count?

I agree with GarterSnake on this, and have no personal reason to project anything onto it. I’m the product of a suburban middle class upbringing. Laura, the simple fact that you felt the need to talk about class at all was unnecessary; you could have easily made the contrast very clear without ever mentioning it. I think the contrast between bagging cocaine and kindergarten-esque construction paper and pipecleaner projects is pretty clear on its own.

I wouldn’t go quite as far as GarterSnake to say that you shouldn’t have described the roommate’s smokers’ voice – that’s just description, and I don’t see anything wrong with it. But you didn’t have to frame it as a “class-clash,” since most things that could be called class issues are cultural, and the way you write this story, you sound really classist.

BTW, my comment is not intended to downplay how scary and bizarre the whole thing sounds – I’m surprised you lasted that long.

Wow, calling a place where poor people casually deal drugs, steal and try to shoot each other a ghetto is classist? I thought it was just descriptive.
There’s decent people in the ghetto too, and shitty people in higher class areas, but it’s just a descriptive term of the area. That said, people who steal and use/deal drugs are trashy. Get over it. If that feels like a personal attack, you might want to take a good hard look at your life.

Lisa, did your friend know that his other ah.. Guest was inviting criminals and drugs into his home? It seems like they were taking advantage of his hospitality in the worst of ways. What if the rivals come back to shoot up the place after he returns and the dealers have moved out? Or drug addicts looking to buy? Or the police belatedly find out and tear the place up and find something the dealers forgot to take with them?

“There’s decent people in the ghetto too, and shitty people in higher class areas”

And you just demonstrated why using “low class” to describe these people is lazy writing. For the record, nowhere did I actually take issue with her use of the word ghetto. The problem with referring to people who are drug dealers/addicts, dirty or unkempt as “low class” is the assumption of superiority that goes along with it.

I’m puzzled by those of you who object that I dared to mention ‘class’. I can only assume that you’ve never actually lived among different classes, if you think I’m only lobbing some sort of underhanded insult, or am attempting to make myself seem loftier by comparison.

The two weeks I spent living with the drug dealers was my most intimate glimpse, but I also spent years living in NY’s seedy Lower East Side before it was gentrified. Although the neighborhood was ethically diverse; the mindset, behavior, and manners of my neighbors were world’s apart from what one experiences in your average middle-class suburban American neighborhood.

To take a cue from the Scarface illustration chosen for my VWR tale– the people I lived with were more like lower-rent versions of Tony Montana, as opposed to Frank Lopez (the older, more genteel middle-class criminal, played by Robert Loggia). Both drug dealers, both very different in manners and attitudes.

It’s not as though I have contempt for the lower classes. I remember the Colombian cocaine dealer (Tommy) with fondness for his chivalry– he realized that I was being hassled on the street in our neighborhood, so one day he told me that he’d “put word on the street” that I should be left alone. (It worked!) The girl– meh, not so much– she’s still got my red sweater.

Oops… that second paragraph should read “ethnically” diverse!

Regardless of whatever issues people might have with the references to class, this is the worst roommate story I have read on this site. You are so brave for staying there the full two weeks! I never would have lasted that long.

That’s good that Tommy looked out for you. At least you could feel a bit more comfortable walking on the street.

If it makes you feel better to assume that I’ve “never lived among different classes,” go right ahead and feel better. After all, you spent two whole weeks living with poor people! How did you ever survive that? You must be an expert on sociology now. I’m just saying, this story was snobbish, and you sound entitled and naive.

Plenty of people aspire to being AT LEAST middle-class. Middle class from a lower economic view really does appear to be affluent. However, I do understand how somebody who is middle-class wouldn’t have that realization due to the difficulty of view.

BTW some of the phrasing in this story does come off in an overtly negative manner. Remember, the “drug-culture” isn’t limited to being “ghetto” since it involves all economic classes. And furthermore if you meant specifically the lower class involvement in drug culture you shouldn’t have described it as “ghetto” since that’s just rude.

P.S. Sounds like a really polite dealer.

*due to the difficulty of view…ing such matters from another social background.

(: — If drug culture ISN’T limited to being ‘ghetto’ (and, it of course isn’t), then why’s it a faux-pas to describe drug culture that IS in fact ghetto as…. “ghetto drug culture”?

Social class isn’t about income. At age nineteen I was on my own financially– I have no doubt that the two drug dealers had higher incomes than me, working my part-time job which paid little more than minimum wage. Class is about behavior.

(And, class is also apparently a four-letter word, to some!)

Classes do exist. So does something called classism, perhaps you should make a hat to describe how this word pertains to you and the way you clearly reflect this.

So, the consensus is that classes do exist. But we’re to pretend otherwise. Got it.

Social class IS about income and I’m sure plenty of holocaust survivors would disagree with your description as well.

I must also agree with GarterSnake.

Lisa, your writings sound very classist & snobby. It really ran over what is a really interesting, incredibly bizarre story (that I would agree would be a GREAT TV show). Which is a shame, b/c this is probably the most entertaining story I’ve read here! It maybe due to the limitations of submissions/a lack of specificity, I don’t know. But it is very clear.

Minerva is being highly disengenous. You can mention, talk about, & explore class differences w/o sounding condescending.

— Huh?!?

All of you idiots ganging up on the writer are really pissing me off. This girl was living with COCAINE DEALERS and you have an issue with her describing what class they were? Give me a fucking break. Project much?

Also, there was nothing snobby with how this story was written. I believe you people who think that simply have a problem with good writing. If someone writes well, they are considered snobby. The same goes for people who speak clearly with appropriate grammar. They MUST be snobby and think they’re better than everyone, because they’re intelligent. Gimme a fucking break and go back to your pathetic lives. You clearly have issues if you need to drag out a pitiful “debate” like this.

Oh, please, plmno. You might want to brush up on your reading comprehension skills, as you seem to have missed the point. Nice try, though.

I’m not really seeing the snobbery, but I imagined Lisa citing all of this, tongue in cheek.

But then again, I think “classist” sets people off just like “racist.” There are all definitions for what is and what isn’t, but I’m not going to jump down Lisa’s throat because I am reading classicism into something. You see, condescending tones come both from the projector and the listener.

The misuse of an adjective provides the ground for the Morally-Superior-Than-Thou internet turds to jump up and showcase their knowledge. It’s rarely to educate. What a conundrum

Michelle, I appreciate how level-headed you are about this, but I have to say, if Lisa wanted to be tongue-in-cheek, then she should have written this tongue-in-cheek. plmno up above in the comments seems to think that Lisa is a great writer, but great writers choose their words carefully. Also, I hope I’m not one of the “internet turds” you’re referring to. I’m not a turd; I just can’t sit idly by when someone is being classist. And yes, “classist” does set people off the way “racist” does, and condescension can be a two-way street. But I wouldn’t feel bad about telling off a racist, and, as such, I don’t feel bad about telling off a classist.

GarterSnake– “Classist” means “prejudice or bias based on class”.

Stop cavalierly tossing the word around, and kindly explain HOW I demonstrated prejudice or bias against anyone. Let’s hear it, brave slayer of bigots.

Okay, Lisa, I’ll bite. It’s the way you, a self-professed middle class, suburban girl, casually referred to an entire neighborhood as “lower-class” and to people’s lifestyles as “ghetto.” If you’re so confident that there’s nothing offensive about that, try walking into a blighted neighborhood in your city and telling some stranger in the street that his neighborhood is “lower class” and “ghetto.” By the way, if, as you said above, class is about behavior, not about income, how can an entire neighborhood be lower class? Neighborhoods are divided not by income, but by attitude?
And these people, to whom you clearly felt superior, were a bit standoffish toward you, not because they thought you were naive or silly or frivolous, but because they, as members of the lower class, automatically felt the need to show you deference and respect? As though you were some mythical creature? Please.
I don’t use the word “classist” lightly. And, as you can see from the comments, I’m not the only one who had a problem with the way you told this story. You sounded like a snob, and what’s worse is that you seem completely oblivious.

I agree with GarterSnake. I honestly don’t think that there’s a good defense for there not being classist overtones in this story. Lisa, you might not have meant to make it that way, you might have meant only to illustrate the differences between you and your new flatmates, but the language you used (ghetto, lower-class) can’t just be thrown into a story. These words have meanings beyond simply describing things. A neighborhood may be “lower-class”, but that term specifically has a connotation of inferiority. Same with ghetto.

It’d be like addressing your grandmother as “old lady”. Even if your tone is respectful and she is, in fact, an elderly female, the term has connotations beyond its simple definition.

Okay… so what it comes down to is the simple fact that I used the words ‘ghetto’ and ‘lower class’, because they’re on your banned-word list. You’d have rather I used the word “blighted” instead. Tell me– in what context IS it appropriate to use the two a fore-mentioned words, without being a “classist”?

More likely, you deem them off-limits– never to be uttered by anyone– because you apparently believe that the very identification of something as X or Y demonstrates prejudice & bias against X or Y. Isn’t this what it all comes down to?

If “low-class” and “ghetto” don’t accurately describe the patch of Manhattan between Houston Street, Avenue B, Fourteenth Street, and FDR Drive…. circa the early 1980′s, then those words are applicable to nothing. But, that’s not really what we’re quibbling about– it’s the taboo words I used.

And while a neighborhood can accurately be called “low class”, obviously there will be individuals living in such neighborhoods who no one would deem low class. My best friend in art school was such an example– born and raised in the low-income housing projects on FDR Drive, but a complete aberration compared to his family and neighbors. He wouldn’t have hesitated to call his upbringing “ghetto”.

And, by “mythical creature”, I meant to convey that I was perceived as a foreign oddball that
they couldn’t quite make heads or tails of, so I was treated with caution. Mythical creatures aren’t necessarily winged-goddesses with halos and super powers, they’re also strange beasts.

Perhaps some of you aren’t aware of this site’s admonition to limit stories to around 200 words or less?

Okay, this is the last thing I have to say about this. Would you call a person low-class or ghetto to his or her face? If not, then you should ask yourself why not. I don’t care if your poor friend called his own upbringing “ghetto;” that’s like arguing that your black friend calls himself the N-word. It may be true, but that doesn’t mean you have carte blanche to apply that term to others.
And my problem with your story is more than just the words you used. It’s the air of entitlement that came across in your writing. That may well have been unintentional, but it’s there, and I’m not the only one who sees it.
It’s obvious that you and I are never going to see eye to eye on this. Oh well.

Airs of entitlement, yes– my story reeks of it.

It did to me, Lisa. And if you didn’t mean to put it there, I’m sorry for reading that into it; I’ve seen your comments on other threads, and you seem like a cool person. The thing is, I’m a writer, and I’m really perceptive and picky about other people’s word choices, and sometimes I approach a story like this as I would a story someone had submitted to workshop; I feel like it’s my duty to break it down and squeeze every ounce of meaning from every word. Unbelievable as it may seem, I really don’t like to argue, and I do like to give people the benefit of the doubt. But sometimes I get caught up in my “every word counts” writer’s training and go off the deep end. I still think your story could have been worded better, but I don’t think you’re a snob.

‘…usually surrounded by an assortment of friends from the lower-class, drug-blighted neighborhood, and she routinely wore various items from my wardrobe without asking.’

I was a little bit affronted for, oh, a milisecond the first time I read that sentence.

I don’t think you’re a snob but that is bad wording and I understand why some people were offended, because it sounds like you’re suggesting that if someone’s from the poor neighborhood then it’s automatically undesirable to have them hanging out at your apartment. The trouble is that you don’t immediately give an explanation for why it’s bad that your roommate had these people from the poor neighborhood hanging around her (they were the drug dealers and shady characters of the neighborhood); you just talk about how not only did she hang out with people from a poor neighborhood but she also wore your clothes. Your wording makes it sound like hanging out with people from poor neighborhoods is an offence in itself, on a par with wearing other people’s clothes without permission, but of course what you actually mean is that these people were the criminals of the poor neighborhood, and that’s why it was bad to have them in your apartment all the time.

So I agree with Gartersnake that your wording here wasn’t so great, but nonetheless your writing is descriptive and vivid and funny and it’s amazing that you lasted so long in that place, and your post was highly entertaining, probably the best one on the site.

To me, the most interesting part of this story is that the author got college credit for making hats out of construction paper and pipe cleaners.

I think Lisa made fun of herself as much as anyone else in this (very funny) story. It’s all light-hearted, I’m sure she meant no offense. And she has every right to tell the story in her own way, in her own words.
People are so quick to get offended these days.

Hilarious. Gartersnake is so middle-class it’s unreal. Nice touch throwing in a little comment about your ‘writer’s training’ after telling the OP to ‘get over herself’ for mentioning her assignments.

I think many people have missed the point of this article. The purpose is to tell the story of the worst roommate, not a technical writing assignment. Why pick apart every word she used? Did it make it any less interesting of a story? Some people have way too much time on their hands to get worked up over these stories.

I’m with lisadecember on this one. Delete the references to social class and there’s no story left. It’s about her class, their class, their joint confusion about how to deal with each other… Undue levels of paranoia about the mention of class and race usually betokens a greater concern with these things than does mentioning them to establish the context of the events. Mentioning that the roommate smokes Newports is “classist?” How so? Public health officials have made it an explicit policy for forty years to promote the view that cigarettes are low-class in order to discourage it. It’s the backbone of the anti-smoking movement. I’ve lived in that neighborhood myself, and it all read pretty recognizably to me. Great story, lisadecember.

I just went back & re-read this & wow. Things got waaay blown out of proportion really fast.

Still one of my favorite stories, though.

Well, IDEALLY your roommates should not be cocaine dealers who solve their problems with a few gunshots… but those people are not necessarily “the worst of the worst”, what is basically proven by this case… some of the “normal” roommates turned out to be much worse…

Wow! this argument over the festive season? where was I? lol.

Lisa, with respect maybe it’s time to empty your full cup, if you cannot see your opponents view, and re-fill it slowly. How can you be so closed to criticism? It’s not the words themselves that are the problem, it’s the tone. You’re a great writer, and this was a lovely well written story except for the tone of superiority it had at some parts. I have nothing to do with America or Britain and their classes, but I got the same feel that GarterSnake did. It just came across as you keeping your roommate at a distance because of her class more than her behaviour. Do you think the underlying tone would have been different had she been a 1st class dealer? I don’t think you meant to come across that way just as much as I don’t think GarterSnake is projecting anything or being a turd (to address the people that said so), so see it as constructive criticism, especially if it turns into a many people debate.

Thandi– You imply that I’m close minded, when I tirelessly invited critics to elaborate on their objections. I also elaborated my views on social class at length.

Because I failed to acknowledge wrongdoing is not to suggest that I believe myself incapable of error– I simply wasn’t persuaded by the vague, contradictory criticisms which amounted to little more than accusations of bad etiquette (“Thou shalt not note or imply that lower classes exist”).

“Do you think the underlying tone would have been different had she been a 1st class dealer?”

Inevitably, since the “tone” that my critics allude to is my very mention of lower-class behavior. Get rid of the lower class details, and the objectionable “tone” is thereby erased.

Had the story been slightly different, where I was lower on the class-totem pole— a middle class girl living with Ivy League drug dealers — would anyone had squawked about my “tone” if I’d mentioned that Galoises cigarettes were chain-smoked, or that I walked into the bathroom to find a 50-year old man named “Llewelyn” naked before me?

Of course not, wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow.

The real question is: why is the acknowledgment of differences in social class considered the last taboo?

You think I’m smug & bigoted because I acknowledge class? I think you’re smug & bigoted because you consider it too loathsome for polite people to talk about.

My ex-room mate used to sell meth, yet paid fraction of rent. I paid $925 and she paid $400. I have full time job. I guess when you are low end dealer you are poor.

I never comment on any of these stories because I can never get used to the way people treat each other here. BUT by God I loved this story so much! That and the ensuing ‘clusterfuck’ of comments. I just don’t get it! It’s such a beautifully written story, and so well described I could see it happening in my head. I can’t even imagine how people like Garter Snake have a problem with it. I mean classism? For crying in a bleeding bucket this is an entertainment site! I really PITY such people who besides having no sense of humour probably go through life in their miserable little bubble whining to anyone who’ll listen.

Everyone in this world comes from a history of classism, it’s no use throwing a dramatic attention seeking bitch fit every time it’s mentioned. I myself come from a country with such extreme forms of classism (India) it would make you dizzy, right from having my dad kicked out of his family because he DARED marry a lower class farmers daughter and so much more I’d need years to talk about it. It happens. And yet I don’t find the “references to classism” offensive or disrespectful in the least bit. I could even sense a feeling of fondness that you had for these characters and vice-versa. I can imagine life for people like Garter Snake, it must be pretty dull. I wonder what he/she does at the theatre when *GASP* there are references to *GASP* classism… or on television, or in music, or on the radio, or in the papers (we already knows what he/she does on the Internet)… I mean if you have the sensitivity of litmus paper to acid then you probably shouldn’t be surfing entertainment websites or heck, anything for that matter, stay at home – because such levels of radicalism really never helped anyone.

And Garter Snake talks about the ‘sense of entitlement’ in this story while telling other readers to, and I quote, “Oh, please, plmno. You might want to brush up on your reading comprehension skills, as you seem to have missed the point. Nice try, though”. I can’t believe how judgemental that statement is, looks like someone has an overrated sense of entitlement over their comprehension skills and (LOL) writing skills. What a hypocrite! Look, anyone can learn to write and speak English perfectly – that does not make you any less of an asshole.

This is definitely one of my favourite stories among all the MVW sites and honestly Lisa, don’t let miserable unaccomplished in real life losers like Garter Snake tell you otherwise. He/she is just a nasty piece of work, one has to just look at the OP-hating, judgemental comments he/she posts in almost every story on this site. It’s probably because that’s only fulfillment Internet losers get as they have no real life.

Maybe no one says it here because they’re so busy criticizing everyone else, but thanks for the entertaining read!

Great Story. I agree that the point of the story was that these people you were living with were dealing with life and death situations while you were a little innocent art student making pointless construction paper hats. That’s the story. Nobody is better than anybody else, you’re just living your lives at different degrees of hard core.

It’s remarkable that people get upset because you called someone who dresses low-class, lives in a low-class manner, obviously has no job or respect for typical moral and ethical standards, and clearly has very little money “low class”.

Next thing you know people will get upset when you call those things that sit on your desk and compute things “computers”.

I feel the need to donate my 2 cents.

The story is brilliant and clearly a little tongue in cheek, she is as much making fun of her own middle class artistic pursuits as anything.

Pointing out societal differences DOES NOT make you a snob, it just means you call it as you see it and there’s nothing wrong with that, I didn’t find it offensive in the least.

And I have to say, GarterSnake, you come off as extremely petty and somewhat of a snob yourself, she didn’t submit the story for you to critique, she hasn’t come to your “writing class” and neither has anyone else so it might be best for you to keep your condecending comments to yourself.

Also it’s totally patronising to assume what people will or will not be offended by

Can anyone from a poor neighborhood tell me if ghetto is really so taboo to use for describing poorer areas with drug dealing and such? I thought it was a pretty neutral word that acted as a general description, but from the crazy comment thread perhaps I was wrong. I can’t tell if it’s one person who’s hypersensitive about class seeing things that aren’t there or really something offensive!

Late to the party, but I wanted to point out that I think people are confusing two issues here. The things that happened in the story are things Lisa observed and there’s nothing wrong with including them. There’s especially nothing wrong with highlighting the culture clash that occurred. The problem is that a lot of the language used sort of implies that it’s standard fare for a lower class person — too many broad strokes and not enough emphasis on the individuals involved, imo.

I think the story probably would have benefited from a more specific approach just because it would have made the cast all the more memorable and amusing — purely from a writing standpoint, even, never mind its social context.

ANY sort of drug dealers are lower class

Great story. You were sort of like Goldilocks in a house of three bears wondering which one would eat you. I’m curious to know whether the dealers were envious or curious about you pursuing an education?